When Nick arrives the next day Tom is on the phone with his apparent mistress. When Tom enters the room Daisy sends him to make drinks, then kisses Gatsby and tells him that she loves him. After a brief visit from her child, Daisy suggests that they all go into town. After Tom sees the way Gatsby and Daisy act towards each other he convinces himself that there are feelings there and makes the decision that they will all go to town. Gatsby drives Tom's car and Tom drives Gatsby's car into town. Tom stops at Wilson's garage and learned of Myrtle's plans. Tom panics, he believes that he is losing both his wife and mistress at the same time.
In town Tom starts to verbally attack Gatsby. He questions him about being an Oxford man initially, but then Tom finally comes out and says that Gatsby is trying to take his wife from him. Gatsby tells Tom that Daisy loves Gatsby and has never loved Tom. Daisy is very indecisive throughout this whole argument. Tom confidently tells Gatsby to take Daisy home. Tom, Nick, and Jordan leave after Gatsby and Daisy. On the way they see a scene. They learn that someone has hit and killed Myrtle than drove away. They learn that it was Gatsby and Daisy. At Tom's house Tom comforts Daisy and treats her far more kindly kindly than Gatsby expected. Nick finds Gatsby in the bushes outside Tom's house. Nick learns that Daisy was the one driving the car. Gatsby insists that he needs to stay and wait outside of the house, in case Daisy needs him.
Gatsby constantly tries to relive the past. This theme reoccurs throughout the novel, and this chapter really brings it out. Gatsby is in love with Daisy, however he is really in love with the memory of Daisy. When Gatsby looks at the green light across the dock it brings back all of his memories of Daisy. Gatsby tells Tom that Daisy has never loved Tom because Gatsby only knows what he remembers: being the sole object of Daisy's affection.
Gatsby becomes obsessive over trying to win Daisy which ultimately compromises his person. We have seen this already throughout the novel. The shadiness of his companion Wolfsheim has an impact on Gatsby. We see this with the poor mannered men that Gatsby replaces his butlers with. Gatsby would rather surround himself with these people than good hearted people if it means he will be closer to Daisy. He will even give up his lavish parties just to try and impress Daisy. However, we see the full extent at the end of chapter 7. After killing Myrtle the only thing concerning Gatsby is if Daisy is alright not that he was just involved in murdering another person.
Fitzgerald has some wonderful examples of figurative language throughout this chapter. Daisy is constanty complaining about the heat, even some of the other characters do as well. This eludes to the impending drama that is about to unfold between all parties involved. Daisy cannot stand the heat, and she cannot stand when Gatsby and Tom go after each other as well. When Daisy and Jordan sit on the couch and say that they can't move has additional meaning as well. This represents that all this adultery and lying, in fact the entire lifestyle these people have adopted and has pushed them into a position where they "can't move".
Biographies:
http://www.pbs.org/kteh/amstorytellers/bios.html
L.A. Women driver's ban:
http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/02/23/1920-proposal-to-ban-female-drivers/
Discussion Question:
· 1. When the group is going into town and they encounter a
sickly Wilson, it is obvious to Nick that Wilson discovered Myrtle’s
infidelity. Tom seems not to notice, even though he made a similar
discovery about Daisy only a short time before. Is Tom
really oblivious to Wilson’s deduction, or is he just trying to save
face?
· 2. When Tom and Gatsby are arguing over Daisy in the hotel,
Daisy says very little for herself, and is reluctant to make a clean
break with Tom as Gatsby urges her to. Do you think Daisy is still in
love with Tom, and perhaps wanted to maintain relationships
with both men? How does her forced choice between them contrast with
the unchallenged way Tom had both a wife and a mistress?
· 3. Do you think either Gatsby or Tom truly loves Daisy?
4. Why is it important to the scene for Nick and Jordan to be there during the confrontation?
5. Would Gatsby really take the blame for Daisy hitting Myrtle?
6. Why
doesn't Gatsby feel he can confront Tom in Tom's house? Why does Tom
start with personal attacks on Gatsby before addressing the issue of
Gatsby and Daisy's affair?
I will be responding to questions 1, 3, and 5.
ReplyDelete1. I felt as if Tom was just trying to act ignorant of the situation. However, I think it goes beyond saving face. Tom had entered a business deal with Wilson, who is a mechanic. Tom’s deal involved selling Wilson his automobile, a blue coupe. Although Tom is very rich, I think that alerting Wilson that he knew of the affair would impose upon Tom’s “values”. Tom is from a type of class that would best be referred to as “old money”. These were the kind of people who would have mistresses and affairs, but they would deny any accusations against them. Tom is very hypocritical of other people and is a bully. At one point, he even broke Myrtles nose because she was talking about Daisy. If Wilson recognized that Tom was having an affair with Myrtle, I think it would’ve changed the entire ending of the book, so Tom kept silent.
3. I think that Gatsby loves the ideas of Daisy that he has in his mind. Many years have passed since the two had met, and Daisy is a different person. However, I think that Gatsby does love her because of the way that he seeks her approval. She dislikes the parties that he throws, so Gatsby stops throwing them altogether. When he first meets with Daisy in Nick’s house, Gatsby is nervous. He sent a servant over to Mow Nicks lawn, he brought tea and food, and does everything he can to impress her. He even gets rid of most of his servants in order to hire people who wouldn’t talk about his relationship with Daisy. He knows that she is still married and will do anything he can to protect her.
Tom, on the other hand, seems to lack respect for Daisy. He hardly acknowledges her and when he does, he is very condescending toward her. He frequently leaves the house to be with his mistress Myrtle. However, deep down, I think that Tom did still have love for Daisy. He hit Myrtle because she mentioned Daisy’s name, so he must still harbor some affection toward her. Later in the Novel, Tom also reminds Daisy of many private memories that they had together. It’s hard to accurately gauge whether or not he loved her because of his conflicting actions, but I think he loved her in his own way, even if it was rude.
5. Gatsby would probably take the blame for Daisy hitting Myrtle. He cares about Daisy and even tells Nick that he will take the blame for the incident. Gatsby actually take the initiative to hide outside of Daisy’s house to make sure that Tom doesn’t hurt her. His love and devotion to Daisy, even if she doesn’t feel the same way toward him, shows how much Gatsby is willing to sacrifice for Daisy. I think that he would take the blame and use his money and influence to quickly deal with the situation so Daisy’s reputation isn’t tarnished.
In your response to #3 Keith, I want to add and idea. Tom may question Daisy about her love, because if it wasn't there, his idea that he has the perfect life is shattered.
DeleteI will be responding to the first part of the second question and the third question.
ReplyDelete2. In this chapter Daisy is put into this conflict of having to choose between Gatsby and Tom. I believe that her reluctance to make a clean break from Tom is not necessarily because she still loves him, but instead because she really doesn’t want to face the issue at all. There were several instances in the chapter where Daisy practically pleads with Tom to get away from the conflict. The first time is when she asks to go into the city to get away from the heat, then again when Tom confronts Gatsby and a third time when he further insults Gatsby. As well, Daisy also tries to calm Tom down, which makes it seem as though she is afraid of upsetting Tom. This really leads me to believe that Daisy was content with her life with Tom because her life with him was easy. By easy I mean that she had a lot of money and all the conveniences that came with it. I think Daisy deep down was afraid of losing the security her life with Tom gave her. I also think this is why at the beginning of the novel Nick thought, “It seemed to me the thing for Daisy to do was to rush out of the house, child in arms—but apparently there were no such intentions in her head (20). I don’t know if Daisy still loved Tom or if she ever really did love him, but I do believe that she loved the security he gave her. As well, I think that she would have rather kept seeing Gatsby secretly while still remaining married to Tom and that the idea of telling Tom was Gatsby’s idea not hers.
3. I don’t believe that either Gatsby or Tom truly love Daisy. To begin, I agree with everyone in class that Gatsby was in love with the idea of Daisy. He had dedicated the last five years to building a life that would please Daisy. Once he made his money, he threw parties specifically with the hope that she would come to one of them and then later when she didn’t enjoy herself at his party, he stopped throwing them. However, in this five year time period Daisy had changed. If Daisy was truly as great as Gatsby believed her to be, she would have defended Gatsby at all costs and would have been willing to leave Tom for him. As well, she would have told Tom the truth about who hit Myrtle, instead of simply going back to her life with him as if nothing had happened. Gatsby was so in love with this past vision of Daisy that he failed to see just really how different she had become. At this point in the book I don’t think Tom is in love with Daisy anymore. I do believe that he was once in love with her, based on the times he reminded Daisy of when he was trying to get her to admit that she had once loved him. However, I think his motivation of reminding her of all of those things was because he was afraid of losing both his mistress and his wife. If he really truly loved Daisy he wouldn’t have turned to other women both in Chicago and New York. While both men may have once been truly in love with Daisy, I don’t believe that still are in this chapter.
I will be addressing questions 4 and 6 since they both deal with Tom and Gatsby's confrontation over Daisy. I think it was important for Nick and Jordan to be there during the confrontation because their role was to act as mediators to make sure the confrontation did not get too out of hand. Also, since Nick is Daisy's cousin and Jordan is Daisy's friend, she would have back-up if she needed it. In addition, I think it was important for them to be there to see first-hand what really occurred. Otherwise, rumors, which Gatsby has been trying to avoid, could be spread. If rumors would be spread, that would not be good for anyone's character.
ReplyDeleteI feel like Gatsby feels like he cannot confront Tom in Tom's house because he is a respectable man, and would not want to disrespect Daisy by confronting Tom in her house. Gatsby is also more non-confrontational than Tom so he would only be involved in a confrontation if Tom started it. They also have their fight on neutral grounds, in a hotel in New York City. Tom started with personal attacks on Gatsby, such as mocking his habits of calling people "old sport" and accusing him of lying about being an Oxford man, before addressing the issue of Gatsby and Daisy's affair, because personal attacks first tend to make people be more honest. After Gatsby personally attacked Tom, Gatsby questioned Tom's intentions with Daisy, and Gatsby honestly replied that Daisy loves him and not Tom.
As far as the reason to Nick and Jordan's presence during the argument, I agree. However, I would like to add that because Nick as the narrator of the story was so convinced of Gatsby's goodness he needed to be there as a witness. Fitzgerald uses Nick's descriptions of the setting, expressions, and actions to convey hidden meanings such as when Gatsby's face appeared as if he had just killed a man. Nick seems to cling to his notion of Gatsby's special qualities, but in the end that moment shows how Nick truly knows how corrupt Gatsby's actions were, no matter how pure the intentions, but Gatsby's face and Nick's impression returns to the former position.
DeleteI also think that Gatsby was so assured of Daisy plan of action that he remained cool even as Tom watched the things that he held close to him slip away. I think taking the trip into New York allowed Tom to realize how close his life was to falling apart. He attacks Gatsby personally as a way to discredit him and unsettle him so that Gatsby will give up. This is probably Tom's method of choice for winning arguments as well. Again I agree that Gatsby did hold himself to a moral standard that kept him from confronting Tom in his own house. Finally, the city houses the secrets that old money people don't want kept in their homes like parties and scandals, so that is where they go to discuss the mounting scandal.
I will be responding to question 3:
ReplyDeleteI do not think that Tom loves Daisy. When the two men confront one another in the hotel, to me it seems like he is trying to save face rather than preserve the over he shares with his wife. I think Tom was fighting for his lifestyle, not for Daisy’s love. He had just learned of Myrtle’s possible move west and is realizing that he may lose his mistress and his wife. When he recalls what seem to be the fondest memories of he and Daisy’s marriage, it seems to be more a blow to his ego. He had led his life feeling superior and thinking that he could have Myrtle as a mistress and still control Daisy. Tom is confronting Gatsby because his ego is hurt, as he is shocked that Daisy was capable of doing the same thing to him, and is unwilling to lose both the women in his life in one day. It seems like, for Tom, if he is losing Myrtle, Daisy almost becomes a consolation prize as he is determined to keep at least one of them in his life. Tom isn’t in love with Daisy, but with his own selfish life.
Gatsby, however, does seem to show feelings of love for Daisy, but does not understand the circumstances of the situation. I think Daisy is right when she tells Gatsby that he asks for too much. Gatsby thinks that just because Daisy has said she loves him, she should have no problem uprooting her life and leaving Tom. This is where I view the society of East Egg like the New York society of Age of Innocence. Tom and Daisy are “old money” and in their society divorce, while legal, would probably be frowned upon and many are scared to leave the economic security of their marriages. Gatsby, being “new money” lives more of a lavish and reckless lifestyle and can’t understand why Daisy has such a problem leaving Tom. There is also Tom and Daisy’s daughter to think about. She is talked about minimally and the two define what it means to be distant parents, but dissolving a family is not something frequently done in their high-class society. Gatsby does seem to love Daisy, but he is blinded by a lack of understanding the ways of “old money” society. Dasiy was never going to leave Tom, which is why she is so hesitant during the hotel confrontation, because a loveless marriage with economic security is better than the judgments of society that would come with divorce.
Question 6
ReplyDeleteI think that Gatsby will not confront Tom in his home because he considers it to be Tom’s territory and that is where Tom has the upper hand. He is worried that if he were to start the inevitable fight there he would lose since Tom has the home team advantage. Another reason that Gatsby refuses to confront Tom in his own home is that Tom and Daisy’s daughter is there. Gatsby is surprised to see the little girl, Nick notes that it was as if Gatsby never believed that the girl existed. The little girl is proof that Daisy has moved on and lived without him. When he saw the little girl he was worried because her existence meant the Daisy might not have loved him and only him all five year that they were apart. This worried him because it means the Daisy might not choose him in the coming fight since Tom has something with Daisy that he does not. The little girl represents a tie that Tom and Daisy share. Gatsby is in love the idea of Daisy and this idea included the belief that she has no other ties to other men. The little girl scares Gatsby and he needs time to recover before the coming fight.
Tom starts with personal attack against Gatsby because he is worried that Daisy will pick Gatsby. Tom begins the argument by making Gatsby look bad. We know that the old money or East Egg people do not approve of the new money or West Egg people by their actions at Gatsby’s parties. Gatsby discontinued his parties because Daisy disapproved, this disapproval is our first glimpse that Daisy is not the perfect girl that is desperately in love with Gatsby that Gatsby be lives her to be. So we know the Daisy likes the way that old money lives and Tom brings out all of Gatsby’s shortcoming and ties to new money to make him less attractive to Daisy. This attempt works since when Tom points out all of the things that Daisy does not like in Gatsby she gives up on him and goes back to Tom.
I would like to respond to question 3.
ReplyDeleteDue to the shallowness of society in New York at this time, it is difficult to determine whether or not there was love among any of the characters. Between Gatsby and Tom, I feel as though Gatsby does love Daisy more than Tom does, even if there isn’t really any love at all.
I don’t feel that Gatsby truly loves Daisy. Gatsby lives a very lonely life despite his extravagant parties, and having Daisy gives him something to hold on to. While he seems to have good intentions, and, according to Nick is better than all of them, the novel still leads me to believe he is in love with the idea of her. He never really states anything about his love for her personality. It seems that the “thrill of the chase” is what draws him to her, as he is consumed with the green light and the idea of having her again. This goes along with the idea of the American dream that I think Gatsby is trying to achieve. He is concerned with status and Daisy could just be another luxurious accent to his life. He even hopes that his big status can capture her attention. He stated that in past years, the fact that everyone liked her made her more desirable. In addition, I think Gatsby is just trying to make up for something lost. He was essentially rejected by her for being poor, so he now feels he has to prove something to her. This also goes back to the idea of living up to the American dream. Though he really does seem to be in love with attaining someone so luxurious, it is interesting to note that he does remember her from a long time ago. Since he remembers her specifically and has only been waiting for her out of everyone in New York, it could be said that there are romantic feelings present. This does, however, tie back to the “thrill of the chase.” He knows how difficult it is to have her because of their past and the fact that she is married, but he is determined to make that happen.
I don’t feel that Tom loves Daisy either. While their relationship is much different than hers with Gatsby, both are lacking emotion. Tom and Daisy’s relationship seems to be caring, but there is infidelity. If Tom truly loved her, he most likely would not have a relationship with Myrtle, even if it seemed acceptable in a racy society. They may simply be together because of their status in society. Tom may also be with her simply for security, in case something were to go wrong between him and Myrtle.
It would also seem to be difficult to love someone who does not love you back. I feel as though Daisy does not love either of them. She rejected Gatsby for being poor and married Tom. Since wealth was a concern, this is most likely why she married Tom; not for love. I don’t think Gatsby realizes this and is so consumed with the past to even notice. While Gatsby is trying to impress her with his wealth, she is already stable with Tom. Between Tom and Gatsby, however, I feel as though Daisy prefers Tom because she chose him at the end. It is difficult to determine why, other than the fact that she is very shallow, like the rest of society. Of all three of them, I think Gatsby has the best intentions.
I would like to provide a response to questions 2 and 3
ReplyDelete2. In my opinion, Daisy is a very shallow person. Growing up in a wealthy family, she has only ever had a sense of security in her life, and whatever insecurities she had were removed. For example, when Gatsby goes to war, and informs Daisy of his inability to return from Europe promptly, she begins dating other men again, and consequently marries Tom when enough time has passed. As Daisy learns more and more about the way in which Gatsby has acquired his fortune, she realizes that there is not much security in his money. Tom on the contrary, has acquired “old money” and as a result, his fortune is more secure. As Daisy sees this situation unfold, she most likely realizes that she cannot leave Tom without the risk of losing her financial security. Therefore I do not believe that Daisy actually loves Tom; however, she is in love this the idea of his financial security. I believe that the contrasted way in which Tom has a wife and mistress is in correspondence with the idea that wealthy men often did have mistresses. The concept, as long as it was kept quiet, did not cause raise any controversy. Daisy knew all along that Tom had a mistress and yet she never confronted Tom about it. Yet, when there was the slightest indication that Daisy was in love with another man, chaos ensued.
3. I believe that Gatsby is in love with the memory of Daisy. I believe he was in love with her before he left for the war, due to the fact that she was the perfect addition into the lavish lifestyle which he envisioned for himself. When he encounters Daisy five years later, I feel that Gatsby is well aware of the shallow woman she has become, and perhaps always was. Yet Gatsby cannot let go of the past. He cannot allow a concept of his grandeur plan for his life simply fall away to nothing. I also feel that perhaps Gatsby was well aware that the way in which he obtained his finances was not entirely stable, and by marrying Daisy with her vast amount of wealth, Gatsby would be assured that he could carry out his lavish lifestyle for the remainder of his life. Tom, on the contrary, I feel never loved Daisy. To Tom, Daisy seemed to be simply one of the many trophies that he possessed. When he tries to convince Daisy that he is truly in love with her, this is merely an attempt to compete with Gatsby, for Tom a man who is versed in competitive sports.
Alright I apologize, I had to split this into two posts. I had a lot to say, so here it goes:
ReplyDeleteChapter seven, a single chapter, shows how interesting and difficult it is to read The Great Gatsby because the reader must find the hidden meaning between each line. Fitzgerald successfully portrays the hollow world created by people like Tom and Daisy. Actually, I find the book difficult to read because the material portrays that emptiness so well that I often find myself feeling like a shell as I read about how the power of greed and materialism eats Gatsby’s good nature alive while Nick watches on as he tries so hard to reserve his repulsion.
I have read this book before, but through our discussions and my own analysis, I have noticed how powerful Fitzgerald’s use of the setting is in creating the emptiness. He relies on the setting to portray all the unspoken words, feelings, secrets, and corruptions in a way that even the tangible world of New York becomes more of a façade in my mind leaving on the surreal impression of a city or a setting at all. The heat that suffuses chapter seven exemplifies Fitzgerald’s reliance on the symbolic nature of his setting and his heavy use of imagery because the dramatic emphasis placed on the heat actually represents the mounting tension between Tom and Gatsby. As Daisy remarks, Gatsby looks cool on the outside, but he does not retain his composure during the confrontation later in the chapter. However, the heat is not the only symbol or image used in this chapter colors, the eyes of TJ Eckleburg, and even cars are symbolically used to create a hidden message. The cars actually show how Tom is letting Gatsby try on the life he could never have with Daisy by allowing them to drive to the city in his own blue coupe. In the end the symbolic nature of every color, character, and possession creates a sense of deception, and the whole setting begins to seem fake like the people in it. The power of hiding the truth beneath the setting and symbolism is that the author can create this feeling of emptiness even when the book is so full of hidden meanings because the reader feels deceived and disgusted by the truth under the glitz.
No character provokes feeling of deception and shallowness more than Daisy Buchanan who is a direct product of the materialistic, flighty ideals of the setting where she was born and raised. She is literally full of nothing more than money as Gatsby himself notes when he says “her voice is full of money,” and Nick concurs in his musings. Each and every person in that room was charmed by Daisy because her voice “was full of money-that was the inexhaustible charm that rose and fell in it, the jingle of it, the cymbals' song of it. . . . high in a white palace the king's daughter, the golden girl. . . .” and more importantly her being. In a way, Daisy, whose name is like a reverse symbol, is money itself. Therefore, Daisy could never really love Gatsby or Tom she was as fickle as the flow of money in their world and caused greed and corruption to sour even the goodness of Gatsby. She is so fickle and impatient that she could not wait for Gatsby to return and she could not wait for him to rise to her status, so in an era that was about breaking the rules, she could not get over wealth and class gap. Her actions do not look or sound like love in any way. She could not love Tom because she is so full of money, and money is what she loves about Tom, but he himself has too little character to love as a person anyway. Tom simply cares about having money and power as you can see by comments like “the sun's getting hotter every year," said Tom genially. "It seems that pretty soon the earth's going to fall into the sun-or wait a minute-it's just the opposite-the sun's getting colder every year” which he uses to explain away the heat and show off his worldliness. In the end, Tom sees Daisy as a prize, like money, and Fitzgerald even calls her a “silver idol” showing how she is simply an empty statue made of wealth for Tom to own and Gatsby to pine after.
ReplyDeleteGatsby happens to be the only person of the triangle to actually be capable of genuine feelings like love. However, Daisy has charmed him because she represents everything to someone like Gatsby who spent his whole life aspiring to be better to which his list of “self-improvement” attests. Gatsby did not just want wealth, but the accumulation of wealth often represents a successful, strong, and intelligent person. The final piece is to fall in love and create a family with which to share your wealth and ideals which is where Daisy came into the picture. If Gatsby was successful enough and charming enough to earn her love, then he had truly earned a better position in life. Unfortunately, the dream of a better life blinds Gatsby as he reaches for money and corrupts his purer intentions for life. Therefore, he doesn’t love Daisy just what she represents.
In response to question one, I feel that Tom is simply trying to save face. Such a realization, that of discovering that the person you are with is probably seeing other people, is such an intense feeling to deal with. I feel like it would be nearly impossible to hide any such feelings after finding out about the infidelity of your partner. Surely Tom noticed, having, as the question proposes, just the very same feeling, and he chose to ignore it. I feel that if Tom chose to recognize it, he would have alerted Wilson to the fact that he knew how he felt. At this point, Tom is unsure as to whether he can win Daisy back, but it seems that he feels that he can so long as not too many people, if any at all, know about Daisy's lack of fidelity.
ReplyDeleteIn addition to that, Myrtle is his mistress. He already knows that she has been cheating on Wilson, given that Tom is the one with with she is cheating. If Nick, a person not technically involved in the situation, could figure out what Wilson was upset about, it is not hard to imagine that Tom would have come to that conclusion much sooner. Given that, it is almost certain that Tom would not want to bring the topic up, as he would not want to raise Wilson's suspicions onto himself; that could be disastrous. In my opinion, Tom is keeping quiet in order to literally save his face, as there is no telling what Wilson might do to it.
4. Why is it important to the scene for Nick and Jordan to be there during the confrontation?
ReplyDeleteIn class we mentioned that it was important for Nick and Jordan to be present during the confrontation because they acted as silent mediators. After looking over the chapter again, I actually think that there’s more to it than that. In this section of the book the true colors of each character emerge and we are able to see them for who they truly are. Of all the characters, Nick is the only one to come out in a positive light and undergoes a beneficial realization. As all of the conflicts between the characters collide (very much representative of the fatal crash to come that kills Myrtle) Nick is present to help us get a better idea of who our narrator truly is.
Tom shows us just how awful of a person he can be in this section. As he addresses the issue of his wife’s affair he becomes very angry and even ends up striking Gatsby. He is rude, abrupt, and undignified. It is interesting to note that Tom seems to care more about losing control over Daisy than of her affections for another man. This idea can also be seen in the fact that he also just found out he is also losing his mistress. Tom never thought very highly of Gatsby and the fact that she cheated on him with someone that he sees as beneath him shows that he cares more about his image rather than the actual affair itself.
As Gatsby stands outside of Daisy’s house at the end of the chapter, he is stripped bare of the façade that he once held and is completely vulnerable. Tom’s vicious words and Daisy’s rejection broke him down to nothing. Daisy refused to admit the she never loved Tom. Gatsby can be seen as a man that was too caught up in a dream to live his life. This got the better of him and after the fight Gatsby’s whole sense of self is destroyed. Who was Gatsby when he no longer had a dream to pursue? At the end of the chapter he stares off towards Daisy’s house in case she needed him. It is clear he cannot exist without his dream of having Daisy.
This section also allowed us to get an idea Daisy’s true character. Previously she was always portrayed as sweet and shy and in the first chapter Nick even remarks how her voice, “…was the kind of voice that the ear follows up and down, as if each speech is an arrangement of notes that will never be played again”(8). However, in this chapter the few things she does say do nothing to make her look good. It showed that there is more to her than she let on. For example, when Tom left the room Daisy pulled Gatsby in and kissed him in front of Nick and Jordan. She then proceeded to tell him that she loved him. This shows that it is possible Daisy was only using Gatsby’s affection to get back at her husband. She saw it as a sort of game and wanted it played on her own terms. If she truly loved him then she would have fought for Gatsby during the confrontation instead of dismissing him. We also know that Daisy never tells Tom that she was driving the car, which goes to show her level of morality.
*Continued from previous post
ReplyDeleteThroughout the chapter Jordan hardly says anything and I believe that this ended up being one of her downfalls in Nick’s eyes. After watching the outburst and doing nothing Nick sees Jordan as the kind of girl that doesn’t stand up for what is right and by being with her he can see that he is acting this way himself. He knows that she will keep following and accepting the ways of Tom and Daisy and he does not want to be a part of that.
Nick’s presence at the conflict opens his eyes to the fragile and corrupt world he had made himself apart of. Unlike the other characters he realizes that this is not a good thing and tries to get himself out of it. We can see this when he declares, “I just remembered, today’s my birthday.” The conflict made him realize that he wasted some of his valuable time, that living in the past is no life at all, and that these people do not value him as a human being. The way that Tom and Daisy brushed of the death of Myrtle show that they lack ethics and are not good people to be around. This can be seen when Nick actually stands up for himself and rejects Toms invitation inside by saying, "I'd be damned if I'd go in; I'd had enough of all of them for one day”. By having Jordan and Nick present at the confrontation Nick is able to grow and escape the insanity that surrounds these people.
5. Would Gatsby really take the blame for Daisy hitting Myrtle?
Yes, Gatsby would take the blame for Daisy and in fact he does take the blame for her. Daisy never reveals to Tom the truth about the accident. This act shows Gatsby’s true feelings for her and his upstanding character. This question got me thinking about how Gatsby is the product of all the people that he comes into contact with and is never truly himself. Throughout the story we can see the person that he has made himself become around the image of Daisy. Even when Gatsby was younger and first began molding himself into the person that he became, his whole persona was based off of Dan Cody. So from this the question becomes not who was Jay Gatsby, but who was James Gatz. For his entire life he has sacrificed himself to be the image that he thinks others want to see. As Gatsby stands outside yearning for Daisy in the beginning of the book and then again at the end, we see that his character never changes and he is stuck chasing a fleeting dream
I think that it is also important to mention the significance the Myrtle was hit by a car. Throughout the story she is seen chasing money and material things. This is what she values. We know this even from the time her and Tom first met. She was attracted to the way that he dressed. The fact that she was killed by a car shows that living life this way is no way to live at all.
1. I believe Tom has noticed, but knows that he must do his best from losing Myrtle. Not losing Myrtle is only feasible if Wilson never knows exactly who it is and who to keep an idea.
ReplyDelete• 2. Daisy loves the life she has. It is safe. She doesn’t love Tom, just the life she has with him. She can’t see herself throwing away the old money life style for the scandalous Gatsby life. She wants the prime and proper life where it goes smooth every day with little effort. Daisy has to choose because she is a woman. In this time the double standard was only men can have affairs. This goes along with Maggie. Due to this the men call her out.
• 3. Gatsby loves the old Daisy, the memories he had of her. She has changed though. She has new prime and proper life style. Tom loves that he has the dream lifestyle ( a loyal, good looking wife), but not Daisy.
4. Nick and Jordan’s presence gives character depth to them. Their lack of intervention shows how they stay out of people’s lives, which we see Nick do throughout the story.
5.I believe Gatsby would. He already bought a mansion and threw lavish parties. I know this was only to win her over, but I still believe he would as another act to win her over.
6. Gatsby doesn’t attack Tom to save face with Daisy. He wants to look as the better man(option) to her. Tom, however wants to exposes Gatsby’s flaws for a one up on him in Daisy’s eyes.
My response will take into detail questions 2, 3, and 4.
ReplyDeleteTo begin with, Daisy’s overall affect towards Tom and Gatsby is obviously stand-offish, where she is reluctant to stand up for herself. I feel like she actually doesn’t love Tom and is only with him for fear of what will happen if they do break apart. With the inclusion of Gatsby back in her life, this decision was even harder for her to choose between Tom and Gatsby. Obviously Gatsby and Daisy once had a romantic tryst in their earlier years, but a lot of time has passed since they last saw each other. When Gatsby left her life, she needed someone to fill that hole, with Tom being the only one there, as bad a person as he is. Unfortunately for Daisy, she does not have the voice nor the confidence to make a decision whether or not she wants to stay with Tom or go with Gatsby. This is shown in the hotel scene, where Daisy refuses to tell Tom she never loved him. Gatsby, even with his pressure, does not get the assurance he wants from Daisy.
This steams into question 3, whether or not Gatsby or Tom truly loves Daisy. For Gatsby, he did once love Daisy in his younger years, but at this point in his life, he is more obsessed with the idea of Daisy rather than her actual, physical figure. He always has the idea of the Green Light in his mind, which clouds his judgment from time to time. This Green Light has manifested itself as Daisy, something he is longing to grab but can never touch. If he would end up with Daisy, I feel like he would not know what to do with his life anymore. His entire MO was to eventually be with Daisy, yet the chase was the only thing on his mind. Also, before he met Nick, he would have lived his life forever waiting for Daisy to come to one of his lavish parties instead of meeting her face to face. This shows that Gatsby wanted the idea of Daisy imprinted in his mind instead of actually being with her in the end. Without Nick’s influence, Gatsby would have died an unhappy, yet always longing, man. Tom, on the other hand, most certainly is not in love with Daisy. He is merely in love with being with anyone, which just so happens to be Daisy. She is simply arm-candy to Tom, nothing more. Throughout the novel, is doesn’t even seem like Tom and Daisy are together, let alone have a child together. There is no emotional connection between the two, even though Tom confronts Daisy about if she actually loved him. As I said before, Gatsby pressures Daisy to tell Tom she never loved him, even though Tom pushes it back on Daisy about all the times they have had together. This leaves Daisy unable to make up her mind, which leaves Tom and Gatsby to be at wit’s end with her.
Going on from this, question 4 is taken to account as well. Nick and Jordan, during the hotel scene, act as silent cheerleaders for Daisy, Tom, or Gatsby. I believe they are there for moral support for the characters, specifically Daisy. Since Daisy is the least aggressive out of the three listed earlier, it is easy to see why Nick and Jordan, Daisy’s closest friends, would be there in the hotel with them. If the situation got out of hand (which some could argue did happen), Daisy could rely on Nick and Jordan to back her up and fight her battles for her, mainly against Tom. This leaves Nick in an odd predicament with Gatsby, since you could consider them to be “friends.” But in the grand scheme of things, you have a clear break in character groups, with Gatsby, Tom, and Daisy on one side and Nick and Jordan looking through the window and moderating from the outside. This leaves an ironic form in character for Nick, contradicting his first sentences in the novel that he tends to avoid judging people. As the novel progresses, this sense of being non-judgmental falls to the wayside as Nick becomes engulfed in the New York way of life.
In response to 2 and 3....
ReplyDelete2. I do not think that Daisy is capable of making big decisions on her own. Her entire life has been shaped by the events around her and she just continues to follow everyone else's lead. When Gatsby gives her the choice of him or Tom, she is too paralyzed to make a decision because she has never done anything like this before. I think that Daisy believed she really did love Gatsby and Tom at one point as well, but she is far too selfish to actually grasp the concept of love. Daisy puts her own priorities above everyone else's. This is especially shown when Daisy does not even take her own daughter into consideration when choosing which man she would like to be with. She barely even pays attention to her daughter. She claims that she is unhappy in New York with Tom when she first talks to Nick, but when she is given the chance to be happy with Gatsby, who would treat her much better than Tom, she rejects him. She needs to continue living a safe life where she is sure that she will always be taken care of, and leaving with Gatsby is too big of a risk. I think that Daisy believes that she does love both men, but really she just wants to continue living in the rich lifestyle that she is used to. When Daisy leaves and does not even come to Gatsby's funeral it shows how little Daisy actually cared about him. In regards to Daisy having to pick between Tom and Gatsby, it shows the double standard towards men and women at the time. Men were allowed and sometimes expected to have mistresses, but a wife was supposed to stay faithful even if her husband did have a mistress. It shows how women were treated unfairly compared to men.
3. I think that Gatsby really did love Daisy, at least the young Daisy that he had fallen in love with. Gatsby went through so much to find Daisy and build himself up to be a better man that could be worthy of Daisy. He lived in a mansion across from where Daisy lived and threw huge parties every weekend in the hopes that Daisy would come. He continued to love Daisy even throughout the whole war, and he never gave up on her. When Daisy hit Myrtle, Gatsby took the fall for her because he loved her and wanted to protect her. I do not think that Tom loved Daisy. I think that Tom liked the idea of having a beautiful wife and a perfect lifestyle, and in the beginning of their marriage I think he thought that he loved her, but if he truly loved her he would not have had a mistress. Gatsby would have done anything for Daisy, but Tom could not even stay faithful to her. Until the end of the book, Tom and Daisy barely even get along. Also, I think that if Tom really did love Daisy, he would have been much more hurt when she said that she was in love with Gatsby. The way he immediately forgave her leads me to believe that he viewed Daisy more as a prize than an actual human being. He had much more animosity towards Gatsby because Gatsby was trying to take what was his. I think that Tom and Daisy were both too selfish to really love each other; they just enjoyed the lifestyle that they were used to.
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ReplyDeleteI am replying to question 1 and 3.
ReplyDeleteI think it can be deduced from Tom’s attitude and the way he speaks to Wilson during this scene, that Tom is well aware that Wilson has discovered Myrtle’s infidelity and is trying to save face. Tom is described as “startled” when Wilson tells him that they are moving out west, and that his wife has wanted to go for years, but pulls himself together quickly. More specifically, I think Tom is trying to act in a way that ensures Wilson’s suspicions do not fall on him. We can see from the writing Nick realizes that Wilson wasn’t suspicious of Tom. Tom tries to keep it this way, acting supportive of Wilson’s decision. Wilson has been trying to get one of Tom’s cars so that he can sell it. Instead of just continuing to entertain the notion of selling Wilson that car, all of a sudden Tom tells Wilson that he’ll give him the car the very next afternoon. Wilson is more desperate for the car now because he’s needing money for the move. This makes Tom appear in Wilson’s eyes as someone who is oblivious to the real situation, and is just trying to help him out.
I also think that Tom’s discovery of Daisy’s affair doesn’t bother him in the way that Wilson’s discovery clearly bothers him. I think that Tom is not so much upset over the appearance of Daisy loving someone else, but he is upset that he is losing control of the situation. “As we drove away Tom was feeling the hot whips of panic. His wife and mistress, until an hour ago secure and inviolate, were slipping precipitately from his control.”(Chp 7) To love other people while being married is no issue to Tom. It’s clear that this has happened before. We are only told about the previous affair in Chicago and the chambermaid from the Santa Barbara Hotel (which is right after Tom and Daisy returned from their honeymoon (Chp 4)), but we can assume that there have been others. Tom doesn’t really love Daisy, he loves himself. He wants to live in two worlds simultaneously, one where he has a wife and the other a mistress. It can also be seen that Gatsby may have a more sincere attachment to Daisy, but both men are definitely in love with what Daisy represents. “Her voice is full of money…that was the inexhaustible charm that rose and fell in it…High in a white palace the king’s daughter, the golden girl.” Daisy is the picture of the ultimatum of what these two men want in their lives, wealth and beauty.